Filed under: conflict
I stumbled upon Cenk’s video in YouTube Who Is Responsible For The Gaza Strip Conflict?. It is a must-watch for the people involved; the Israelies and Palestinians, and for anyone interested in the conflict. Cenk does a brave attempt to understand and explain the current phase of the conflict and what is the right way to move forward. I am an Israeli, and I don’t agree with some of the stated facts , conclusions etc., but I think I recognize a sincere attempt when I see one.
I have been reading a lot of blogs and forums discussing the ongoing cycle of violence in Gaza. Most opinions stated are one sided, mostly express hate to Israel and most of them are ignorant of the sequence of events, the conflict’s roots and history. Many use half-truths or complete inventions to base their opinions, conclusions and solutions.
Reading these type of blogs and forum discussions made me sad. Viewing Cenk’s video made me think. This is human nature I suppose. When someone calls you fascist or murderer or whatever, you no longer listen. When someone tries to step into your shoes and makes a real attempt to understand, you listen. You don’t necessarily agree, but you listen, you understand better how others view the conflict, and take a second look at your own opinions and views. Eventually these kind of inputs make a difference. It is making a difference to me.
I followed the link to Cenk’s show in The Young Turks . The Young Turks is a US nationwide liberal talk show broadcasting over the Internet. Cenk has a lot of charisma, he is a great entertainer and a smart man. I wish I could leave this at that, say ‘great job’ and recommend to add the Young Turks to your favorite news channel list.
I watched Cenk’s other shows. The first was an interview with Norman Finkelstein. Mr. Finkelstein is a Jew who invented a hate-Israel industry of his own and lives out of it. Watching the show gave me an uneasy feeling beyond Mr. Finkelstein hate-talk. The uneasy feeling was that it was as if Cenk was using Mr. Finkelstein as his alter ego, to express what he would really like to say out loud.
As the Gaza crisis evolves, Cenk anger takes the better of him. His rhetorics changed to a one-sided anti-Israel propaganda; Hard Not To Be Angry With Israel . Cenk accuses Israel as for deliberately targeting red cross trucks to drive away humanitarian aid. He accuses Israel of targeting the UN school and gives a one sided account blaming Israel for the entire crisis. At that point I wouldn’t have been surprised if he would turn the incident where 4 Israeli soldiers were killed by friendly fire at the beginning of the crisis to some other deliberate Israeli conspiracy.
So, what is the purpose of this open letter? It’s a pledge for Cenk to understand the power that he has at his hands. Cenk, you are talented, smart, charismatic and a Muslim. You have a show watched by many. You are a role model for many. As a result, you have the power to do good. Or bad. All I’m asking (and its hard, I know) is to keep this in mind during the show. You have the easier path, to express your anger, which is probably shared by your colleagues and audience, or you can try the harder path. The harder path is to do the extra effort and take a second look even at stories and reports by people you appreciate, to interview smart, knowledgeable and charismatic people which could explain the Israeli perspective of things, etc. I think the harder path would make a difference to the good on the long run for both sides.
Yours, bluetegu.
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You may discount this opinion immediately because of my name, but pull away all but the facts of the situation and you will see his anger against Israel is well founded. Also, I don’t see anything to refute Cenk’s claims.
Proportional response…please GOD proportional response!
Comment by Kayvan Ghavim January 14, 2009 @ 5:44 pmHi Kayvan,
Please read below Cenk’s commentary from ‘Hard not to be angry about Israel’.
“What did the the Israeli do today? They hit a UN and a red cross truck bringing in humanitarian aid. They knew they were UN and a red cross truck …. and they hit them anyway. … How do you hit the UN on purpose? That is beyond an excuse. This goes to show you that they want to keep humanitarian aid out at all cost. …. It is indefensible man. Indefensible. … The things that get me though is this; drive the key humanitarian aid out. It is twisted, and I keep on getting back to the word indefensible, unless it is cruelty for the sake of cruelty. Unless the point is to oppress the Palestinians.. ”
Israel did hit the red cross truck and the UN school. However Cenk goes another step and accuses Israel to do this on purpose. There is no supporting evidence for that. I think that it is against Israeli policy to hit UN or red cross trucks and that these were not deliberate actions. Just a few days earlier 4 Israeli troops were killed by friendly fire. The same logic would say that Israel knew there were Israeli soldiers out there but shot them on purpose, for some demonic reason, etc.
My message was that the situation is bad enough that one should be careful and not make it worse, by further demon-izing the actions and intent of Israel. It is one thing to criticize Israel on responding out of proportion, breaking the cease-fire, etc. and accusing Israel with deliberately targeting children, driving away humanitarian aid for the sake of cruelty, etc.
I hope my message is clear. I have many other issues with Cenk’s claims and conclusions, but this comment is getting too long anyhow. I’m not saying Cenk is wrong in all his criticism against Israel either.
Hope for a better future, Bluetegu
Comment by bluetegu January 14, 2009 @ 7:45 pmDear Bluetegu,
Comment by GregoryWonderwheel January 14, 2009 @ 10:08 pmI have not yet seen a person who takes the “Israel can do no wrong” position as you do who is not simply stating their premise as if it were a conclusion.
First, I think you know by now that Cenk is NOT a muslim. Cenk doesn’t like any religion. Your jumping to the conclusion that Cenk is a Muslim shows an example of your bias when it comes to the Israel question. You think that anyone who criticizes Israel like Finkelstein is an “Israel hater.” That also shows your bias and makes you have no credibility. Finkelstein is not an “Israel hater” he is a hater of what Israel is doing in the name of Jews. If you can’t accept the difference then you have no ability to make an objective staement about Israel. You simply believe Israel can do no wrong and so Isreal must be supported no matter what it does.
The problem I have trying to talk to Israelis who believe Israel can do no wrong is that they (you?) always start with the premise that “Israel is good”, then they follow it with “therefore, anything Israel does is good or if not good in itself at least a justified evil done by good people.”
However I, and I believe Cenk also, start from a completely different premise. Our premise is that the worth or morality of actions are determined by their consequences not their rationalizations and justifications.
Cenk’s criticism of Israel agrees with mine: Israel is Goliath to the Palestinian’s David. When a neighbor complains of his neighbors throwing rocks and breaking his windows, he is not justified in driving a bulldozer into the heighbors house and breaking his childrens arms. That is what it looks like Israel is doing by every single outside objective observer.
We can go through the list of war atrocities that Israel has done and I know that you will justify every single one by some lame argument that says simply, “The Palestinians won’t surrender so we can do what ever we want to them.”
The other premise that normal people like Cenk and I have is that we start from the premise that Palestinians and Israelis are both humans who deserve to be treated equally in humane ways. There are Israelis and Palestinians both who refuse to accept this premise. I have seen both Israelis and Palestinians say the other is sub-human. Both use the fanatics on the other side who say the other side should be killed as evidence for their rationalizations to continue their own killing.
As an American who is a Buddhist, so, if anything I have an axe to grind against the Muslims who destroyed Buddhism, I look at Israel’s treatment of Palestinians and see Israelis committing a holocaust on the Gazans in the name of rememberance of their own holocaust.
Israel says that moderate Palestinians can’t control their religious fanatics who want to exterminate Israel, but the same is true of Isreal because the moderate Israelis can’t control their religious fanatics who are killing Gazans and who are continuing to build and expand the settlements in the West Bank. Israel has no ground to stand on to condemn moderate Palestinians for being helpless when moderate Israelis are helpless to stop their fanatics.
As far as I see it, no Israeli can criticize Hamas and the Palestinians until Israel can get its own house in order. Those of us in the USA can criticize both sides, but we see that Israel has tank, jets, helicopter gunships, missles, etc, while the Gazans have bottle rockets. It is not a fair fight and Israel is the occupying colonial power that is refusing to allow Gazan autonomy and sovereignty in the name of Israel sovereignty. It just is not logical.
I too recognize a sincere attempt bluetegu, and i see one here. I disagree with your criticisms of cenk’s piece though. First of all, don’t assume he’s a muslim just because he’s of turkish descent. He’s openly stated that he’s agnostic. He explained clearly why he believes the israeli forces, hit the UN school and truck on purpose, with logical rationale; to punish the palestinians. All you said on the other hand to refute this is:
“I think that it is against Israeli policy to hit UN or red cross trucks and that these were not deliberate actions.”
Thats just your feeling. theres no logic there. you also said this:
“There is no supporting evidence for that”
There is no evidence proving that israeli forces did it on purpose. But we do know that the army had the means, opportunity, and motive. I believe in innocent until proven guilty, but if i was forced to bet money on this, I would say that they probably did it on purpose. Its not only these acts thought. Its now a fact, that israel is using white phosphorous. That is unconscionable.
Your an Israeli Bluetegu. I think you may want to believe the best of your country and so that is clouding your judgement.
Comment by Jay January 15, 2009 @ 3:38 amHi Jay,
I am an Israeli and I do want to believe the best of my country. Is it clouding my judgment? Maybe it does, but I am trying.
Regarding WP – I agree with every word of Cenk’s criticism on this issue. Israel, that is we, should not have used it over Gaza. It is both morally wrong as well as stupid.
Ok. Cenk is Agnostic. I apologize. I am Jewish and probably Agnostic as well. Maybe I’m wrong here, but I think it is easier for moderate Muslims to identify with Cenk because of his ethnic origin, e.g. Cenk has a better chance to become a role model for this community. As a role model he has enormous power to do good (and he is doing good). What I was saying that it easier for people like me to listen to him, even if I do not always agree with his description of the sequence of events or conclusions, if I believe that he is doing his best to bring the viewpoints of both sides, in a fair as possible way.
Comment by bluetegu January 15, 2009 @ 8:17 amHi Gregory,
Thank you for your post.
I am biased. The Hamas rockets hit 5 miles south of where I live. I have family and friends in the south of Israel, I live here and raise my family in Israel. My main concern is to strive to a secure, long lasting and just solution. I’m old enough to live through several cycles of increasing hope and then cycles of violence. I know first hand that the situation is very complex, and no ‘this side is completely right’ or the ‘they just need to stop oppressing the Palestinian’-like solution work. We shouldn’t lose hope and strive to find and follow a process toward lasting peace, addressing the concerns of both sides. However we should not be naive either.
Let’s stop here in a positive tone.
Comment by bluetegu January 15, 2009 @ 9:04 amBest, Bluetegu
As an outsider looking in (I’m neither Jewish nor Muslim) and yet an Arabist who lives in the Middle East, I have a very unique perspective on this issue. I live amongst hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) who immediately condemn Israel for their actions and I am often the lone voice who tries to point out both sides.
Some bring up the concept of proportional response. What is this? How does one measure such a thing? Simply put, you can’t. You win battles / wars because the other side fears your response and realizes they can’t match your might. You do not end such conflicts by measuring your response to be “equal or less than” that of your enemy.
Others argue that Israel is targeting children, medical sites, and even the UN. To this I point out how Hamas places their weapons in or around schools, hospitals, and yes, even UN sites. I have to wonder why those very same people are not condemning Hamas for these actions? (and, for the recored, Hezbollah does the same thing).
And, finally, many people seem to forget that Hamas has fired more than 5,000 missiles and mortars into Israel in the last two years. Every time they fire into Israel they fire at residential / commerical areas, NOT military targets. Why is nobody condemning them for killing children, killing civilians, and yes, their indiscriminate targeting?
Yes, it is sad that children are dying. It is sad that civilians are dying. It is sad that this has to happen at all. BUT…these deaths can be laid directly at the feet of Hamas and they have to be held accountable for their actions.
War is hell….but what’s worse is to be killed for somebody else’s senseless actions.
SJ
Comment by Sand Jockey January 15, 2009 @ 1:34 pmDear BlueTegu,
I very much appreciate your letter, and the criticisms of Cenk; though my opinions of the Gaza invasion are probably closer to Cenk’s than yours, I think that criticism is almost always instructive.
Comment by Greg January 16, 2009 @ 2:29 amI hope that the current casualty numbers are inflated, I know that happens. I am not a reflexive critic of Israel either. As an example, I think the Jenin incursion was completely justified. However, the circumstances surrounding the Gaza war are quite different than during the Second Intifada. During the six month cease-fire with Hamas, indeed Hamas fired crudely made rockets into Israel, but there were no Israeli casualties, and the fact that Gaza was being blockaded during that time, for me, mitigates that aggression. When Gazans, who I believe have the same right to self-government as Americans or Israelis, have to ferret food and medical supplies through underground tunnels, and do not control their own borders, they arguably face an even greater threat to their lives, and the lives of their families, than the Israelis who have the IDF to defend them.
I write this from the perspective of an American, and I believe the role of the United States is to take an objective view, which I do not expect from Israelis or Gazans. If I had relatives in the south of Israel, I would undoubtedly have strikingly different thoughts on the current conflict. But I also have no faith in the ability of Israel or the Palestinians to stop killing each other on their own without a more extensive massacre in Gaza, unless the United States plays a more objective role than simply accepting without reflection every single Israeli action.
I once had a good friend, a liberal, gay, Israeli man, who had done his time in the IDF but just wanted to settle down in Tel Aviv and start a family. We have since lost touch. He was the sweetest man you could know. One day while we sat around and had some wine (years ago), he told me that his friends had emailed him to tell him that near his apartment a suicide bomber had murdered several people. My friend knew, in his mind, that not every single thing the Israeli government does is justified – though many are – yet he could not, in his guts, comprehend the humanity of the Palestinians. This made him sad, but I am certain that anyone, myself absolutely, would feel the same numbness if they had found themselves in the same horrific circumstances as my friend. Exactly because both sides in the conflict face the limitations imposed on them by the horrors of war, it is so important that Americans become a bargaining partner for both, rather than simply a passive cipher, which inevitably benefits Israel at the expense of Palestinian statehood.
Again, thank you for your letter, and I very much welcome your criticisms. I am known to change my mind when presented a convincing case, but it seems to me now that if the casualty numbers coming from Gaza are true, then one has to ask the question: If this is not a massacre, what then would qualify as a massacre? What number of casualties?
Greg
Hi Greg,
Thanks for your post. I’d like to comment on some of the issues you raise.
In 1973 Kissinger, then the US secretary of state, forced Israel to a cease-fire to prevent Israel from destroying the trapped Egyptian 3rd army. In retrospect it enabled the Egyptians to claim victory in that war, and as a result Sadat could take the courageous step he made toward peace with Israel. So yes, I’m with you that a smart US leadership can see further than the Israeli government. I don’t know whether ‘objective view’ is what I would describe it. Everyone is subjective and acts according to its interests, values and the risk for its citizens. Let’s hope the coming administration would prove to act for the good of us all.
The number of people killed and injured in Gaza is horrific. Innocent women, children and men lost every thing they had. The images we see are heart breaking. This is the direct result of war in a dense urban area. Once you engage in such combat you must strive to an agreement that would make sure that this cycle will not start all over again in a few months time. You can’t go half way. This is cruel reality. The Hamas are fighting, shooting rockets and hiding within the urban area. Israel does its best to protect its soldiers, and tries not to target innocent people, as far as it does not put too much risk on its troops. The agreement, I hope, is going to be signed very soon, per the Egyptian proposal. The cycle of violence will start again unless the agreement will ensure that Hamas will not be able to rearm itself. In the last 7 years Israel has retaliated ‘in proportion’ to rocket and other forms of attacks. The range of rockets reached further and further into Israel. The Israeli government has warned for more than a year that it will eventually be forced to ‘a large operation’ until it became a practical joke. Prior to the operation the Egyptians warned Hamas to stop the rockets and sit down to discuss a new cease-fire and they refused. The external Hamas leadership in Damascus, against the opinion of the internal Hamas leadership in Gaza pushed against any reconsideration of the cease-fire. The external leadership continues and plays a hardcore line, regardless of the suffering of their brothers in Gaza.
How much risk your troops should take to avoid innocent lives from being killed? What must be included in the agreement in order for the cycle of violence will not resume? Should you insist on the release of C. Shalit as part of the deal? I wouldn’t want to decide on either one of these questions myself. Is it massacre? I don’t think it is. But the result are horrific, without any doubt.
Is there hope? Its very hard to find hope in these situations. The only positive scenario I can imagine is that local Hamas leadership would be able to pragmatically find a way to solve their disputes with Fatah in the west bank. I hope that the effort to rebuild Gaza will take the Palestinians closer to forming an independent economy, better life and education and give them hope. I hope that the agreement will make sure that rearming Hamas will keep away the hardliner influence by Iran and others. Eventually let us hope that we’ll find ourselves in a peaceful two states solution.
Yours, Bluetegu.
Comment by bluetegu January 16, 2009 @ 10:25 pmThe problem is you are attributing a full working government to Hamas when its not. Israel is a first world nation, part of the Western world. Gaza is basically a third world nation, where even the most basic services are not available. When you say that Hamas encouraged this you are basically working under a completely false premise. Hamas is not a government, it is a loose affiliation of very, very angry people, interspersed with some minimal civil services.
Israel has never allowed a real government to develop in the occupied lands, so what springs up are the most powerful or cunning warlords. Who’s fault is that? If Israel would accept that their country was created in a horribly unfair and unlawful way, and that the Palestinian people do the things they do because they have lived in the largest open air prison on the face of the Earth things could change…until then, I am sorry you can talk about rockets till the cows come home, its not going to change anything. Yes, Hamas is evil, but again Israel has pushed this entire race into a corner, taking away their education, their water, their food…so what does anyone expect?
Also, you snuck in your post that “In the last 7 years Israel has retaliated ‘in proportion’ to rocket and other forms of attacks. ” How many Israelis have died in the last 7 years from rocket attacks? How many Palestinians have died in the last week? (the answer is less than 100 Israelis and over 1000 Palestinians) So until you can admit the completely disproportionate reaction by Israel, you are again not accepting the facts.
Also, considering how everyone in Israel itself says that this latest attack is nothing but a political stunt to secure the ruling political party another election…well, I for one think that needs explaining.
Israel should exist, but not at the cost of an entire race!
Comment by Kayvan Ghavim January 16, 2009 @ 10:44 pmWhat do you say about this article?
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/20269
Comment by JohPhil January 17, 2009 @ 7:33 amHi Kayvan,
I hear you. I understand your anger. The frustrating part is that one needs to find a practical road that lead to a long lasting solution for the Arab Israeli conflict. It is not enough to have good intentions, to admit wrong doings, to act morally. Yes, you should do all these but it is not enough. What is the practical process that should be put in place, with the right incentives and the strong guards against ‘bad’ influence? This is the question.
Am I claiming that Israel is morally right in all its actions, and the Palestinians are to blame all along? No, far from it. I think that Israel fails to control the Jewish extremist settlers in the west bank. Mahmoud Abbas is in my opinion a respectful and brave leader of the Palestinians as he is taking the hard path of non violence. Israel is not doing enough on its side to help him demonstrate that this path is the path that would lead to a better future and a sovereign Palestinian state.
I admit that the Palestinian suffering is much larger than the Israeli suffering since Israel was (lawfully and justly) created. But I can’t accept living in fear of daily rockets or terror. I can’t agree that the principle of equal suffering (i.e. proportional response) is the highest consideration that should be taken by a state. We should strive to find a solution where both sides have hope for a future with no suffering.
Comment by bluetegu January 17, 2009 @ 8:12 amHi JohPhil,
The article seems to be worth reading. Its rather long so I can’t comment on all of it, but maybe the main point is this:
“The proper Israeli response to such Palestinian actions is not “self-defense,” but full withdrawal from the occupied territories.”
The Palestinian state should include all the territories that were occupied in 1967, up to minor adjustments that need to be agreed upon. There is a majority for this opinion in Israel. I hope this can also by accepted by the Palestinian people.
The problem is again, the author is not offering a practical solution how to do that. Should we unilaterally disengage from all these territories? Should we just hope that the other side will not start shelling Ben-Gurion Airport, Tel Aviv etc? The problem is finding practical process that can lead to this and following it. It is easy to write an article about who is right and who is wrong. I can argue with some of its points and accept others. But don’t do the easy job and act as a moral judge. Find real implementable paths to a solution and work to make them happen.
Comment by bluetegu January 17, 2009 @ 8:35 amAnd the great divide final appears! You can’t accept proportional response? Well, that is the basis of all of this discussion, all of this heartache, all of this anger and disillusion with Israel, and its the responsibility of every first world “free nation” to respect this idea, or they are not a nation, they are a police state. Israel is a Western Nation, it is an idea before everything else, an idea of what men and women want to be, not what they are. Israel throws that away everyday, with every bomb, with every school they bulldoze, with every college student they deny travel between occupied lands. I say it over and over again, nothing, NOTHING, nothing justifies Hamas rockets, NOTHING, but, what kind of response does Israel expect in this situation? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. What we need now is not your pleas for open-mindedness, just because you discovered Palestinians perspective recently, it doesn’t mean that those of us who have been reading about this for years need to start at square one.
We, the world, the non-militarized citizens of Israel, the non-radicalized citizens of Palestine, and those of us who just cannot see this suffering anymore demand a resolution. Not military action. Not the shelling of UN Schools or UN Buildings. Not white phosphorus scorned corpses of women and children. We require action. And as evidenced by the last several years of Israel’s actions, the very fragile political situation in not only the occupied lands, but in the Israeli government, it appears that Israel should no longer be the most important player. I pray for UN Peacekeepers, oh, how I pray for UN Peacekeepers.
Good luck to you BlueTegu, I wish you the best, and I know that you want the suffering to end. I know you are not evil. But priorities are important, and the reason America is in the toilet of world opinion is that they didn’t care about civilian suffering. How far do you think that will get the Israelis? The priority should be the preservation of human life. HUMAN LIFE PERIOD. Until you can accept that without caveats, we will only have children burning to death. Which side of history do you want to be on?
Comment by Kayvan Ghavim January 17, 2009 @ 9:23 pmI’m an Israeli that doesn’t agree with her government. I want changes in foreign policy, education, economy, pretty much everything.
Comment by tomom January 19, 2009 @ 11:05 pmIsraelis live in constant fear of terrorist bombings, Palestinian and Lebanese rocket attacks, family businesses are going under and children are going hungry. Just last week, a terrorist climbed to the roof of an office building under construction, to throw bricks at me while i walked to work. He was stopped, and i continued on to work. This is an exhausting reality, but we all go through the motions.
My working joe husband is called to war: from a factory job, to the battle field. All citizens must do this, this is not a choice. Now that i have a little boy- i worry about his future and if he will be a soldier, as well.
I spend Saturday’s washing my husband’s uniform, hoping he comes back safe, hoping the rockets won’t reach my son and me. while i do this, i know that there is a scared Palestinian women doing and thinking the same thing: how will she keep her family safe, fed, and unharmed?
Gaza is occupied by Israel, but Israel cannot occupy the Palestinians, we do not have the resources or the impartiality and NO people should live under occupation. There is no plan on how to end the occupation and no plan is being offered. So no hope is being offered to either side. We are condemned to be forever interlocked in battle. However, no other country is really willing to step in and turn it around, not America, not the UN, not really. Palestinians are Israel’s ‘problem’. We are left here to kill each other, while everyone waits for the last man standing.
If you want to make a difference, rally your government to act: to take in refugees, to control borders, to bring leaders to the discussion table. However, to step in to say horrible half- truths, point fingers, and look for someone to blame- is not about change. You’re looking for someone to hate.
I am a part of Israel, and I stand up and fight for Palestinian Rights, Israeli Rights, Gay Rights, Women’s Rights, Human Rights. These are all good fights. I am an Israeli. I want peace, and I am not alone.
Hi bluetegu.
Comment by A.D January 25, 2009 @ 12:02 pmFirst of all, there is evidence that Israel hit the UN school on purpose. Israel admit they hit the school, claiming that Hamas were using the school to fire rockets (which is always the cover story when Israel hit a civilian building).
Now…just because Hamas may have used the school to fire rockets (which the UN deny), does it give Israel the right to hit it when there is evidence that there are civilians seeking refuge there, and no evidence that Hamas militants are anywhere near the school at present….NO (like Cenk said…INDEFENSIBLE.
Concerning the truck with humanitarian aid, although there is no evidence that Israel hit it on purpose, there is a history of Israel hitting humanitarian aid long before this war (which Cenk mentions in an another video). It’s hard to comprehend that an army as mighty as Israel’s, can confuse terrorist targets for trucks carrying humanitarian aid (not once, but over and over again!).
PEACE
Just to back up what I said:
Israel admits to hitting school:
edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/06/israel.gaza/index.html
UN denies Hamas used school to fire rockets:
Comment by A.D January 25, 2009 @ 12:22 pmhttp://www.nationalpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=1154574
Hi A.D.
I’m glad this cycle of violence is over. I hope we can all find the road to peace.
To your point. Israel does an effort not to hit UN or Red Cross facilities. I’m not saying Israel did not hit the UN school. What I’m saying is that in combat, especially in dense urban areas mistakes happen. During combat you don’t necessarily have the full picture, you need to make decisions quickly and under pressure, and mistakes happen. I gave the example of the 4 Israeli soldiers that were killed by friendly fire – ant these event happen in previous wars.
Comment by bluetegu January 25, 2009 @ 1:07 pmIsraeli army usually investigates events like this. In the past there were incidents were it was found that Israeli soldiers were guilty of acts of cruelty or other crimes. I’m not claiming all Israeli soldiers act as should. But most do.
I’m not claiming that all that Israel is doing ‘on purpose’ is legitimate either. As I wrote earlier use of the WP was morally wrong and stupid.
It doesn’t make sense to me that Israel, as a policy or directive to the army, will hit the UN school or Red Cross truck to ‘drive away humanitarian aid’ or ‘put pressure on the Palestinians’ as Cenk claims. It is clear that hitting the UN compound only damaged Israel. You surely understand that these events were used by the Hamas (and in the past by others, e.g. Hizbullah) to put pressure on Israel to stop the operation. I don’t buy it that the defense minister ordered the army to hit the UN compound just to make himself a fool and spend the entire meeting with the UN secretary apologizing.